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Nazomi Nishi
Thu Nov 29 2007, 07:16PM
Registered Member #502
Joined: Thu Nov 29 2007, 03:58AM
Posts: 3
Message to Linnae: USE THE ENTER KEY or at least use paragraphs, thanks, that is all =)

Now to respond to what she said, the fourth category should be labeled:

4th Old Fart Category with exceptional skill. (and I said people in this category COME UP WITH NEW THINGS like spacebar to do certain moves, not that they HAVE to use spacebar to be in this category as Kiku, who does not use spacebar fits into this category.)

JuileAnne: Thank you for an update on a tournament that will take place. Is there a possible link to it or somewhere to look in game?

[ Edited Thu Nov 29 2007, 07:58PM ]
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Kiku Otsuka
Thu Nov 29 2007, 08:05PM
Registered Member #257
Joined: Mon Nov 05 2007, 09:58AM
Posts: 8
Wow, lots of stuff here!

First, I think Colin makes a good point about the new physics engine. I think its going to change a lot of things about what's possible, so the spacebar issue may become irrelevant sometime soon anyway.

I also should add that I don't think someone should be looked down on for using it in and of itself, and it would be far worse if it became a big deal in the community with anti-spacebar groups like with the anti-special group. That ended up having a strange effect on people, getting them all hyped about about something relatively insignificant and causing a lot of strife that was way out of proportion. I really don't see any personal component to any of this. Two of the people I have the most respect for regarding C:SI (not to mention just as people) are Alyssa and Shidji, and both of them have more liberal opinions on spacebaring than I do. I joked that I wished I could shake the spacebar out of Alyssa, and that's because its not easy to make a claim that something is uncontroversially illegitimate when Alyssa and Shidji, the two people I consider my equals and/or betters, come to a different conclusion based on their skill and experience.

Now on some level I agree with Alyssa in that the devs aren't really community participants in the same way that most of us regulars are. They are sorta removed from things in a way and I think do most of their sparring in isolation with each other (unless they are around with alts or something). If you took any 5 of us and had us spend half a year only dueling each other we would all become pretty atrophied from being closed off from the wide range of creativity and skill that exists in the larger community. But despite that, I have noticed that they have good perspective anyway, like when I've seen statements Esprite has made on these kinds of issues reported on Robby's blog. So although the devs may not be able to keep up with the long time regulars in terms of skill (and therefore maybe don't have the more honed sensitivity to what the weapons are doing from the user's end as opposed to what the script says they are dong), I do give them credit for having a good sense most of the time for what is in balance and what isn't, and this is one of the reasons that led C:SI to being the only combat in SL worth doing, imo.

I also agree with Alyssa that the spacebar doesn't speed your run as effectively as it used to, with the exception of when there is heavy lag.

When we did spar last it was true that I had been away for a month or so and had only been back for a few days. I brought up your having slaughtered me not because I think that shouldn't happen or expect to split fights with you each time, since there have been times in recent memory where you do have a duel where you totally dominate me and I can't keep up. I was just saying the experience of the duel where you mostly did that one move was very different, just in that it had a quality of cheapness to it. But that in itself doesn't mean anything, just that as of now I don't really know what a counter would look like, and so just have to work to find one next time we are able to get together.

I brought up the Newb Nooberton example more as a joke, that wasn't really one of my main points. In fact I think that argument doesn't really make any sense or have any weight regarding much of anything in CSI ever, since when I was new I had no chance against you for example, but I'm glad that was the case because it gave me a goal to work toward.

One thing I've noticed about people that do C:SI is the variety of reasons for its appeal. One is that its just a quality combat system, maybe the only one in SL, so its simply really fun and that draws people. Some people also like the atmosphere, being fans of martial arts culture, or interested in Japan, or China, or whatever. Some people also really get into the clans and all the interesting things that can develop within them between people. And some people I think made most of their friendships on SL in the C:SI community and so simply hang around because of that despite no longer being that interested in the system.

So, I think people that are drawn mostly just because of friends, or mostly because of the fun of the system, are going to be less concerned about the spacebar stuff than the people that pursue some of the culture elements. I don't think you can divide people up that simply really, but you can kinda see this on Meiji. Like you have some people hanging out sorta being goofy, you have people that love sparring and get frustrated when Meiji starts to look more like Cancun than Edo, you have people dressing and acting the part, bowing before duels, being really mannered in a traditional sort of way, etc. But anyway, I think the people that are most interested in the stuff outside of friendships and fun tend to be more concerned about the spacebar stuff, on both sides of the issue. I think this is a large chunk of community, and I get a sense that its on people's minds with how often I am asked if so-and-so spacebars or not.

So the point of all that is it does get old when for a year you have endless spars, day after day, to no end or goal or point. If there aren't tournaments to participate in, or maybe clans to join and have a role with, or not teaching or doing something like that, I get really bored and end up wearing a leotard and dancing to Olivia Newton John. I don't really think people looking for ways not to be bored is bad, and there is room for the different people I've described, and that if doing spacebar tricks is a way to keep yourself entertained there isn't anything wrong with that and doesn't have to be about honor and respect or become something personal. I personally would prefer to see spacebar considered something on the fringe, akin to dancing on cows while dueling, and not something with mainstream acceptance just for all the reasons I've already described.

Wow, I think I'm just rambling now, lol.. so anyway, despite it getting a little heated its awesome the forums are getting this much lively discussion!
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JulieAnne Rau
Thu Nov 29 2007, 09:27PM

Registered Member #107
Joined: Tue Oct 30 2007, 08:52PM
Posts: 77
Naz, advertized on Robbies Blog, located here.
Link
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JulieAnne Rau
Fri Nov 30 2007, 08:41AM

Registered Member #107
Joined: Tue Oct 30 2007, 08:52PM
Posts: 77
Kiku Otsuka wrote ...

So the point of all that is it does get old when for a year you have endless spars, day after day, to no end or goal or point. If there aren't tournaments to participate in, or maybe clans to join and have a role with, or not teaching or doing something like that, I get really bored and end up wearing a leotard and dancing to Olivia Newton John. I don't really think people looking for ways not to be bored is bad, and there is room for the different people I've described, and that if doing spacebar tricks is a way to keep yourself entertained there isn't anything wrong with that and doesn't have to be about honor and respect or become something personal. I personally would prefer to see spacebar considered something on the fringe, akin to dancing on cows while dueling, and not something with mainstream acceptance just for all the reasons I've already described.


OK, first off.. I have seen Kiku dancing in a leotard to Olivia Newton John. Oh, and wearing a fitness tag also while sparring.

Second, I agree with her statement but I would like to qualify it with something that Colin said.

Colin Kiernan wrote ...

It seems to me like the best thing to do is ask who you are fighting about spacebar use, and agree on it. Because it seems like the majority either uses the spacebar or doesn't care (maybe I'm wrong about this), it should be assumed that spacebar is allowed unless one of the fighters says otherwise. It also seems like if two fighters agree on spacebar use during a tournament, that should be fine. It wouldn't affect any other fights, would it?



If you would like to use the spacebar, or dance on a cow while your killing me, please consider your opponent. I would prefer to know up front that you plan to use it (If your dancing on a cow when I challenge you, I can assume what type of mood your in) so that I can either withdraw my challenge or continue. Some days I’m goofy too and just want to have fun with it. That doesn’t mean that I use the spacebar, it just means that I can accept someone else using it. And please don’t think less of me if I withdraw my Challenge, I have actually had someone call me a coward for that. He took it, as if I suggested the only way he could beat me was to use it. Actually, that day I was feeling all traditional.

I think that the majority of people don’t use the space bar (so I disagree with Colin on that point) and every tournament that I have been associated with (or that I have seen posted) says that the spacebar is not allowed. Mind you, I have been doing this for about 5 months now and realize I’m still considered new to some. With that said, like Colin, I consider the space bar like a performance enhancing drug. It’s banned from competition but ok to use in a friendly race. So again, please consider your opponent. I may be practicing for a competition and you’re just in it for the friendly race.

At this point of the discussion it always gets down to who should be doing the asking, the one using it or the one that disagrees with it? My feeling is, if it’s ‘usually’ banned from a tournament; tell your opponent you’re going to use it. Frankly, I feel foolish continuely asking, "are you going to use the spacebar?" If I do the asking, it feels like I'm afraid of it. I already told you of an incident that someone called me a coward. All it takes is one bad experince (or one jerk) and I won't be doing that again. I'm not sure how someone would feel about asking to use it?

JulieAnne

Edit Note: Perhaps the Dojo owners can put up signs that warn this is a spacebar free or spacebar accepted zone?

[ Edited Fri Nov 30 2007, 10:38AM ]
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Tatsuhiko Arashi
Sun Jan 27 2008, 07:32PM
Registered Member #135
Joined: Wed Oct 31 2007, 06:44PM
Posts: 4
o.o Wow that's a lot of long posts. Sooo how bout just an easy solution. Before you fight someone, ask if they'll let you use space bar. I already ask if a person uses specials, since I don't like to use them I don't think asking about the space bar would really be that big a deal.

for tourny hosts, Tell the people the rule, and players should ask.

Pretty simple. I mean, there's no need to go into why, or why not something should be used. If you're cool just ask, and decided whither or not the person you are dueling, or the tournament you have entered wants you to not use the space bar.

There's my two cents



Samurai Giri: Shogun
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Jiao Zhangsun
Sun Jan 27 2008, 10:00PM
Guest
Nuuuuu! Spacebar sucks! lolz, jk
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